So: Who's going fascist AFTER November?

Or, "Kumbaya Ain't Gonna Do It This Time."

Regardless of who gets the Democratic nomination and who wins the general election, I think it's safe to say there's going to be a lot of disgruntled people out there still upset that the most progressive candidate didn't win.

If Obama gets the nomination, what will disgruntled Hillary Clinton supporters do?  How will they reorganize?  What sort of private little wars will they get into with the Republican right, and how destructive to political stability will they be?  Will Obama be able to lead the Democratic Party?  Will he be able to control any street skirmishes beyond Washington between diehard old Clintonites and their diehard old conservative enemies?

If Clinton gets the nomination, what will disgruntled Barack Obama supporters do?  Without Obama as a figurehead, how will they sort themselves out into a political movement with a platform and long-term legs similar to the old Clinton organization?  If not, will they scatter,  and some be taken up into increasingly idiosyncratic leftist/progressive movements?  Will they turn into something super-effective... is this just the beginning?  Will the Clintonites know what hit them?  Or will it just be another four years of blog-based fundraising and rabblerousing with the same cast of blogger characters, looking for the next transformative candidate a la Dean and Obama?  Whatever they do, will the Clintonites be able to control them?

And if McCain or Huckabee wins, who gets to lead the opposition?  Will there be a unified opposition or will it just be more fragmentation?

Oh, and I have one more question:  Is everyone going to be able to pay their credit card bills after they've been using them to donate so much cash to their favorite candidate in the heat of their passion?  Is it going to be like the after-Christmas debt crunch, but worse?  

•  Go the McCarthy route

  and sit on their hands.

  by YoursTruly on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 04:51:51 PM PDT

•  Fixed your tags. However this breaks, I think

  I and many others will be far, far from gruntled.

  by Jacques on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 04:51:51 PM PDT

•  After 8 years

  Hey, I strongly support Obama...but after the past eight years and so many near misses how can we not come together to support a D to take back the White House?

  The way I look at it, I can spend my time wishing that Edwards was the one (or Obama, or HRC) and sit on my hands and have four more years of this crap...

  Regardless of the outcome we need to keep our eyes on the fact that whichever D wins they will be a heck of a lot more progressive than McCain and it's going to take all of us working together to make sure he doesn't win. Let's use the enthusiasm generated in the primary to keep the D wave moving.

  by orexpat on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 04:52:32 PM PDT

  •  I dunno

    I think somebody's gonna go off the reservation and get all serious and fascist-like after November, and it's probably not going to be the Republicans.

    by NYCO on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 05:00:27 PM PDT

    •  I strongly support Hillary

      and I agree -- after 8 hellish years of Bush -- the overriding importance for me is a Democrat in the White House.

      So as passionate as I am for Hillary -- that is as passionately I will work for the Democratic nominee -

      I will do everything possible to have a Democrat elected President

      by sara seattle on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 05:06:12 PM PDT

      •  Can't speak for other Hillary supporters

        but I will be working long hours to help Obama get the win in the GE if he is our nominee. Doing anything else never crossed my mind.

        by Psychotronicman on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 05:18:34 PM PDT

        •  I'm talking after the election

          I think most Democrats will pull the lever for the Democrat this year, if they feel motivated to vote.  But that's not the question.

          The question is what happens after November?  After an election, there really isn't much for the average voter to do except stew, and look forward to the next quadrennial, or perhaps Congressional elections.

          Over at MYDD or Open Left or whatever the hell that franchise is called now, Chris Bowers is whining that he's going to leave the Democratic Party if he doesn't get his way.  Somehow that guy has managed to build a sizable following that actually takes him seriously; you don't think he and hundreds, maybe thousands like him will be sharking around?  And on the Clinton side as well?

          This election's not going to solve a damn thing.  Would that it would, but the next president is going to have much less power to control the political discourse.   This election is going to make people feel good for a few months, and then all of the papered-over problems will resurface.  It's going to be like the Wild West out there.  You can already see the budding megalomaniacs staking out their positions.  And because no one is allowed to really discuss race, class or gender -- haven't been allowed, in the Democratic Party, for decades -- without getting in the way of some CRUCIALLY IMPORTANT ELECTION OF OUR LIFETIMES (aren't they all?  Well, that's the business they run here on these blogs and has been for years)... all that repressed talk is going to finally explode into real action outside of the election game.

          Not looking forward to the chaos and carnage, myself.

          by NYCO on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 05:30:11 PM PDT

          •  Oddly enough I see the Dems uniting behind

            our president the more we uncover what shit the Rethugs have been up to. The problem now is we just don't know yet. I think their crimes are going to be revealed as so agregious and evil once the investigations start that the public will turn away from the republicans in droves and forget the BS propoganda they have been feeding us for years.

            *Please, pretty please, make John Edwards attorney general.

            by Psychotronicman on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 05:43:00 PM PDT

          •  Been watching Westerns lately

            Started watching them in the Bush years and found the "Wild West" narratives oddly comforting. That we've been here before.

            I recommend: High Noon, Three Ten to Yuma, Deadwood.

            by catfish on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 12:45:50 PM PDT

          •  Twighlight of Books: Caleb Crain

            Don't know if you've read this, but adds to the notion that chaos awaits us.

            Caleb Crain: Twighlight of Books.

            by catfish on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 12:50:02 PM PDT

  •  Well, we retook Congress in '06...

    ...and that didn't change anything. I'm not looking for much to change after November either (just the names, the letters after them). It'll be the same old same old same. And We the People will be SOL, as usual.

    by Joy Busey on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 05:41:22 PM PDT

•  All I know is...

  ...the longer this drags on, the harder reconciliation will be.

  by sgilman on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 05:06:39 PM PDT

•  A thought I have had for awhile.

  What are the black people and the young people supporting Obama, going to do if he doesn't win the Nom.? This worrys me and I hope this doesn't get ugly. We have to win in Nov. Our Country depends on it.

  by Owllwoman on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 05:24:54 PM PDT

  •  I'll go out on a limb here

    I think Obama will surprise everyone if he doesn't get the nomination by stepping up and rallying his troops. If Obama shows himself to be a dedicated Hillary activist and stumps for her I think the new voters will listen and stay. Maybe silly optimism, but I do think he is a stand-up guy. Hillary, I have no doubt, will do the same.

    by Psychotronicman on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 05:33:15 PM PDT

    •  It's not Obama vs. Hillary

      It's Obama or Hillary, vs. the most disgruntled elements of their supporters, once a nominee is chosen.

      This is not the political arc of 2008 we're seeing.  It's the political arc of 2012.

      by NYCO on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 05:38:44 PM PDT

  •  Today's young people

    are really not as powerful as they think they are (or have been told they are).  Don't get me wrong... they can become an organized political force, but they are far from it now - although they are good at whipping up enthusiasm during elections.

    America's young people are in debt.  The crashing economy is going to fall on them very hard.  Enthusiasm will not change that fact.  Civic energy will not change that fact.  The winner of the presidential race will not change that fact.  A bad recession has already been set in motion.  Because of the way the college education/debt machine is structured, America's young people are actually headed for a division of their forces, such as they are.  Some young people in America will squeak through and some will not.  A growing economic divide between the college-educated class or college-bound class is NOT a formula for national unity, no matter how much it's desired or how much of a glow is felt right now.

    America's young people are actually LOSING political power along with economic power.  After the election, no matter who wins, this will become more apparent and the young voters on the short end of the recession stick are going to increasingly go for the big sticks instead of the soft speaking.

    That's why I asked about WHERE all this campaign cash (for either candidate) is really coming from.  How many young Obama donors really HAVE this money they are sending in?  How much debt do they carry?  How much of the student loan officer's money are they sending to Obama?  (or Clinton too, but since this is about "young voters," and Obama seems to be their candidate, I pose the question that way)

    How much power do young voters and activists REALLY have if they are deep in debt?

    by NYCO on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 05:45:44 PM PDT

    •  :o

      28 year old veteran, debt free... sent 200 to Obama 3 nights ago.  when i get this ridiculous check, ill send 300 more.

      by Vappid on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 06:42:39 PM PDT

•  I'm a life-long Dem, and I'll vote Dem in Nov,

  but I'll do all I can to get this message through:  I'm hating the Dems only marginally less than the Pubs.  If they can't stand up for what's right, they will not continue to get my support.

  by beemerr90s on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 05:51:26 PM PDT

•  UNITY!!

  Stop picking nits off gnats...Democrats will, once again, commit political suicide if they don't unify and get behind the candidate ....be it HIM or be it HER. Jeezuz we have no where to go but UP!!! We have to repair 8 years of hell.

  by Penguins in Burma on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 05:55:22 PM PDT

•  What do the candidates have to do with it?

  We will push ahead, with an increased majority in both houses of Congress, and hold all of them accountable, every day.  We will seek out and lift up every stupid Regency grad, neocon and Federalist Society member in government and demand they are purged and their prefidy exposed.  We will work on campaigns at the state, county, city, township, parish, ward and block level and get better at what we do every election cycle.  

  The candidates do not define us.  They bend to our will or they will have to answer tough questions.  If I support Hillary and she screws up, I expose it and hammer her for it.  If I support Obama and he screws up, I do the same.  They are not us.  We are the movement.  We are the power.  We are the People.  They are employees, and they will think the media is milk toast compared to us -- as they should.  And for the media we will make clear they transform into journalists again or they will be replaced by new media no corporation or party can control.  Pundits lips that kiss the ass of anyone in power will be burned shut forever.

  We need to get the vote out to scare all of them and then we need to keep them scared.  We've had fascists most of the time since Reagan took office, with only a tepid reprieve under Bill Clinton -- and not enough of a reprieve by any means.  This time we will not be fooled again.  We can't.  We will be fighting to keep our jobs, to deal with Peak Oil and global warming, to secure real freedom from Big Brother and to end military adventures where only diplomacy can prevail.  We will see our fellow citizens losing their houses and dying from a health care system driven by profits instead of duty.

  These candidates don't matter.  They never have.  They have caught fire because of us, and they will find it a challenge to keep that fire burning if they turn away from our voice and wrap themselves in Washington's cone of silence.  We will crash the gates and melt them down.  We will rip down the walls and pound the bricks into sand.  We will root out the incumbents we didn't get this primary season in our own party and humiliate and expose the hypocrites in the Republican party.  

  Anyone we put in power will stand naked before us as we scour every line of 10,000 page bills, identify every lobbyist dollar associated with that line and hold every vote accountable without mercy for how sweet the deals they cut are for them or their allies.  If we don't, we won't keep the independents who are giving us a provisional chance by voting with us.

  November is a pit stop.  This movement is a marathon.  The sooner we stop worrying about specific candidates the sooner we get back to the work we have been doing here for the past five years, and in the grassroots since Reagan cut a deal with the Iranian hostage takers in 1980 and we realized traitors had taken power.  

  All of our candidates read our blogs and watch the polls and hope we will turn our gaze somewhere else when they come to power so they can cut deals.  As long as our gaze does not wander and our voices only get louder, more specific and more determined, we will mold them into the kind of President who could be called "great" by future generations.  This movement isn't to elect any Democrat who comes along, this movement is to groom a new generation of Democrats from local to national government and replace anyone, Democrat, Republican or Independent, who refuses to be shaped and bent to our will.

  We will restore respect for the Constitution and the rule of law.  We will demand that the People are the only sovereign -- not legal fictions like corporations or political parties.  We will return to the spirit of the will of the Founding Generation and, once again, learn and carry out our civic duty religiously.

  We will not pause.  We will not rest.  We will not be deterred.  We will never stop.  "Wake up, candidates.  You are the first of a new generation of Presidents who will rule by the will of the People or you will be replaced." will be our message to the victor come November.  After Election Day, our task is to make that imperative real and unbreakable so Unitary Executives move to Paraguay or some other country, because we won't tolerate them here any more, or ever again.

  by eOz on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 07:50:55 PM PDT